WHEN Illinois Issues interviewed Gov. James R. Thompson, he had signed into law only hours earlier his bill to cut one cent from the state sales tax on food and medicine. Thompson was basking in what he saw as his biggest legislative victory yet. His veto of the sales tax phase-out bill had not been overridden, and his one-penny sales tax cut had made it.

The mood was relief. A few hours later, the governor and his family would be vacationing in Florida.

Thompson stood up, shed his suit coat and settled back into his chair. It was a good time to talk about the Thompson administration — the last three years and the next.

II: You have an excellent reputation for fiscal responsibility. What is your single, biggest goal for the next three years?

Thompson: I want to be able to leave a record behind that people could point to and say, "Hey, when Jim Thompson was governor he accomplished a, b, c, d and e." I want a future citizen of the state of Illinois, for example, to walk through a state park and say, "Hey, Jim Thompson built this when he was governor"; or take a family for a drive down a safe highway and say, "Hey, Jim Thompson built this when he was governor"; or I want a foster kid to be able to say 10 years from now, "Hey, my life was changed because of the care I got when Jim Thompson was governor." I want to be able to point to concrete achievements — I don't mean just "concrete" — but achievements in social services, in conservation, in transportation, that

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people will remember this administration for through the years.

II: What is your proudest accomplishment to date?

Thompson: We run an honest government. There is no scandal in the Thompson administration. We are three years into it. Now that's some doing because you've got almost 68,000 employees, most of whom I have never seen, never will see, most of whom I didn't appoint. Yet the governor is held responsible for every one of them. But, if you look at the record of my administration and the record of predecessor administrations, every one of them has stumbled into some kind of scandal; we have not. We have been darn vigilant. I have had as directors of law enforcement two men who are like brothers to me, whose duty it was to stop anything before it happened. If they got a sniff or a hint or an allegation of wrongdoing — bang! — the file was open and the investigators were out. Even if it meant allegations against my own staff or cabinet or something like that, it was handled. That is my proudest accomplishment.

II: Do you think people expected this with your background as prosecutor?

Thompson: Absolutely, that's why it is important to me to live up to people's expectations.

'I think it was a mistake to handle the pay raises in the fashion that I did, but I said so forthrightly in my second inaugural address'

I suppose the second proudest accomplishment was to have rescued the state from bankruptcy without raising general taxes, without sacrificing the quality of any of the programs that government offers, but in fact enhancing the quality.

II: To date, what is the biggest error of the Thompson administration?

Thompson: Oh, there were some things that I think history will regard as small matters which were tempests at the time.

II: The Thompson Proposition for example?

Thompson: Well, I suppose politically a lot of people would now say it was unnecessary. But I still think that ceilings on taxes and spending are a good idea and it was worthwhile finding out that people agreed with us. We've had bad luck in the legislature so far getting them to agree. And some people went beyond the bounds of the law — not in our campaign and not in our administration, but on the outside in passing those petitions. The thing I have always regretted the most was that there were hundreds and hundreds of good people all over the state who passed out those petitions and didn't make any mistakes, didn't violate any laws and they never got credit for that. The press always seems to focus on those who went astray. So, I can't really say the Thompson Proposition was a mistake on the merits although other people would argue with me politically that it didn't need to be done. I think it was a mistake to handle the pay raises in the fashion that I did, but I said so forthrightly in my second inaugural address.

II: How significant is the split between the suburban Republicans and the downstate Republicans?

Thompson: I think it's healing. I think the vote on the Sangmeister amendment in the Senate the other day [27-27 tie, killing a move to expand sales tax relief] showed that the split is healing. There is still some feeling there on the part of suburban and some collar county Republicans that they don't like the transportation program because it changed the sales tax base.

II: Has Jane Byrne definitely established her power as Mayor Daley's replacement? Are you going to work with her on reapportionment?

'So far I am [Byrne's] longest running partner. I don't know of anybody else who has worked with her from day one. . . . We got things done this session that hadn't been done before'

Thompson: So far I am her longest running partner. I don't know of anybody else who has worked with her from day one. I'm still there. I'm willing to work with Jane Byrne so long as her interests and my interests and so long as the interests that she represents in Chicago and the interests that I represent in Chicago and the rest of the state coincide. What she does within the Democratic party is her business, not mine. So far, I have found her to be a strong, creative and reliable partner in government. We got things done this session that hadn't been done before. That's the business we're in — getting things done, solving problems. We may not always agree on how to solve the problems, everybody may not always be happy about how far we go or don't go, but solving problems is the business of people in government and she and I are solving problems.

Reapportionment sometimes ends up being very political. I have spoken to both Republicans and Democrats about reapportionment — both in congressional and legislative districts — and I have made clear my attitude that so far as I have anything to do with reapportionment, I am not going to tilt to one party or another. I'm going right down the line. I'm not going to let anybody be gerrymandered. And I'm going to see equality as far as a map can be drawn between Republicans and Democrats with everybody getting a fair shot. I think the days of gerrymandering are passed, anyway, because now federal courts have jurisdiction over what we do.

II: What are Republican chances in

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gaining some congressional seats?

Thompson: I think the Republicans will pick up that seat in the special election in the 10th District. I don't know yet who our party's nominee will be, but I feel reasonably confident about regaining the [Abner] Mikva seat. Beyond that, I don't know. I certainly hope we'll pick up some seats in the Illinois House to give us control of one branch of the legislature. It is [necessary to pick up] one in the House and three in the Senate. The chances are better, I suppose, in the House.

I'm the first Republican governor in the history of the state to serve with a Democratic legislature. It's difficult at times, although I must say a lot of partisanship was put aside this session, finally. I enjoy working with both sides. I come from a city which is controlled by the Democratic party so I know a lot of the people in the party. I find good in both parties and I don't have any difficulty working with Democrats, but if I had my druthers I. .. [phone rang].

II: What about your use of the constitutional power for reorganization? Unlike Ogilvie and Walker, you have used it several times. Are there further plans?

Thompson: I used it the first year for law enforcement and administrative services, and the second year I used it for the Department of Commerce and Community Affairs. I intend to use it next year for registration and education. The Department of Registration and Education could use a major overhaul in terms of its regulatory authority and the lines of authority within the agency. It's one cabinet department that's sort of grown up like Topsy. I'd like to see it reorganized now.

We are also going to substantially reorganize next year the Department of Public Health. But I think that will be done by legislation rather than by executive order.

I've tried to confine my use of executive orders to those situations which I thought fell within the intent of the constitution; where there was doubt, I've gone by the way of legislation because I am respectful of the legislature's power and authority in this area. They don't always agree with me, but I think we have been careful in each instance to not only seek their opinion, but I've signed conforming legislation even when the right to reorganize was clearly an executive power. I've accepted their conforming legislation so I think we've reached a nice combination.

II: Considering your reputation as pro law and order, how do you feel about the Illinois Supreme Court's opinions during your tenure in office.

Thompson: By and large the Illinois Supreme Court has taken a very moderate, a very balanced, view of law enforcement issues. I generally tend to agree with them most of the time. I sat in that job as a prosecutor [U. S. district attorney]; now I sit in this job as governor. I have pardoned people when I thought a pardon was warranted; I have exercised executive clemency when I thought that was warranted. I have tried to see that balanced criminal legislation is enacted.

II: Balancing the budget has meant a very limited number of new programs, which some people see as reactionary. What about the next three years? Is there any possibility of new programs?

Thompson: Well, I don't necessarily agree with your premise. Balancing the budget in my first full fiscal year, fiscal '78, was absolutely imperative because we were perilously close to bankruptcy. We just had to tighten our belt. Not only for the balance of fiscal '77 (which I didn't control), but for '78, which was a tight year; fiscal '79, a looser year; and fiscal '80, when the legislature broke all records. Having a balanced budget didn't mean the sacrifice of new programs. If you look at hot spot areas, like corrections, the amount of money that we have poured into new programs and new construction and new bed space, and into more humane conditions in corrections has been extraordinary. There were 40 to 50 percent budget increases which are unheard of from year to year.

'We can't have both. We can't have spending for new programs, which everybody says they want, and have tax relief, too. You've got to have one or the other'

The same thing is true for the department of Children and Family Services. It has received a lion's share of money, which we have saved either by cutting down on waste and fraud in government or by working harder at reclaiming federal money than our predecessor administration did. We got up to our maximum amount (now the ceiling under the Social Security Act), so the Title XX efforts paid off.

Whether it's DCFS or corrections or any place else, a balanced budget under the Thompson administration has not meant a failure to go forward with new programs. By no means could 'reactionary' be applied to the last three years.

II: What would you really like to implement?

Thompson: We would like to expand as rapidly as our finances would allow. New programs like the in-home care program for senior citizens began as a modest effort over at the Department of Public Aid and is now transferred to the Department on Aging and is starting to grow expeditiously, depending on the number of people we want to serve and the amount of dollars we have left. That's why some folks have viewed me as stingy on tax relief. Well, we can't have both. We can't have spending for new programs, which everybody says they want, and have tax relief, too. You've got to have one or the other.

II: Have you ever felt the need of a senior advisor?

Thompson: There aren't any. I've even asked people to go out and find me one. Not one has come back with one yet.

Thompson says he's his own best advisor. The governor is older than most of his staff, but at 43 he hardly fits the image of the elder statesman.

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